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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 3:03am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | About forum posting |
The only thing of substance that was posted was advice to ignore things like that. Yes, I know it's hard, but if you do ignore, the aftermath is much easier to deal with. Thanks for your forbearance.
The original foulmouthed post did bring up one issue worth mentioning in a non-heated way: The many band-specific posts we have now, currently of Grateful Dead-related posts. While I realize that fans of individual bands are enthusiastic about their particular favorites, patrons should realize that this is an archive of thousands of bands, not just one or two. It's not a forum for fans of just a few bands, even if the fans are many. For the health of the forum, my advice is:
-If your topic does not directly bear on your band with respect to this archive, consider posting to a forum elsewhere on the net, specific to your band. More like-minded fans there will be happy to have you participate in focused discussion. It doesn't matter whether many fans are also here in this forum. The point is to be aware of the many other patrons who are here to participate in the archive but are not fans of your band.
-If you do post something about a band that's relevant to this archive, please place the band name in the subject line. This helps both people who are fans of your band, and those who are not.
-A related issue: If you are looking for a specific show that is not yet hosted here, please don't ask here. Please ask in an appropriate trading forum elsewhere, or seek out other places where the show may already be available (examples: db.etree.org, bt.etree.org, your favorite band-specific forum). Too many "ISO" aka "grovel" aka "looking for" posts have traditionally caused annoyance among the patrons here and have sometimes been moderated because of that.
(Update 11/2005: Current consensus is that moderators may delete various ISOs to the etree forum here. Also, here is a relevant FAQ.)
No matter where you post an ISO online, it's good etiquette to wait at least 3 weeks before even asking about a show or whether someone taped it. This gives tapers a chance to come home, perhaps from a tour, and prepare their tapes without feeling pressure. If a tape appears in circulation before a few weeks, that's just a bonus! We're often blessed by tapers' quick turnaround but we should *not* expect it nor ask for it.
-As always, keep your words and conduct at the same politeness level librarians would expect from you in any public library. This is indeed a library, not a parking lot.
We really would prefer to keep moderation to a minimum, but may do so as appropriate. Thanks for your help!
-Diana Hamilton, a LMA volunteer curator
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-07-28 10:57:52
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-16 11:03:38
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Poster: | livingondead | Date: | Nov 22, 2005 12:21am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | possible solution |
I haven't heard anyone suggest this here yet, but I'm sure many of ya'll are bt users. So what do you think?
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Poster: | dwill1188 | Date: | Nov 22, 2005 12:42am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: possible solution |
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Poster: | greenone | Date: | Nov 22, 2005 12:51am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: possible solution |
...to you, in which case, you could go to this theoretical Dead-related forum and continue the interesting discussions there.
This is all a matter of opinion, of course - as someone who has never participated in the Dead-related threads on here, I respectfully disagree.
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Poster: | The Bopper | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 1:38am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting (GD) |
I understand that people will get frustrated with the overflow of Grateful Dead posting that goes on in this forum. If I wasn't a huge GD fan I would very annoyed by all the fanatics. But since the LAMA has become a centralized area for all Dead shows, it's only natural that people will want to use these forums to discuss Dead related material. It's just so nice and easy to hop onto the LAMA, start streaming a show and then pop into the forums to discuss our favorite band. And I like the core group of folks who post about the dead here.
A solution to curb the domination of GD posts, and I'd bet this has crossed some curators minds, would be to make a Grateful Dead forum. The perfect place to display GD forum postings would be right below the listing of all the different years shows occured if a user was to click on a "Grateful Dead" link. I'm talking about below the year listings on this page: http://www.archive.org/audio/etreelisting-browse.php?cat=Grateful%20Dead&PHPSESSID=24ef748c4798420eaab58be05f81188c
Maybe there are reasons not to do this as well, and I haven't thought it all the way through. But I have been to libraries over the years that will take all the books of a popular author and feature that author by placing the books on in one section.
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Poster: | doodle | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 2:03am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting (GD) |
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Poster: | Brad Leblanc | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 2:18am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting (GD) |
I've always seen 5 reviews there. Maybe your browser settings compact it to 2? It's 5 for me right now.
Regarding adding new forums, we will probably do this down the road. Tech Support + Open Forum + Possibly others.
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 3:10am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting (GD) |
For now everyone, please be considerate of the big picture here. Thanks!
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Poster: | cody hindman | Date: | Sep 18, 2014 2:23am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
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Poster: | Phynie | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 3:04am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
that said, I am very thankful for how accepting this community is of the dead fans. I have heard alot about there being some upset people on the forum, but I have not seen any posts that lead me to this conclusion. Everyone seems very cool.
I am a member of many forums and have not really encountered people getting upset about members posting too much about a certain topic or band. I do not understand how that would effect them in the slightest.
Can someone clarify what the actualy complaints are? I mean, if it is foul language or picking a fight, that's not acceptable on ANY forum. But as far as posting TONS of topics about one band, does this effect the flow of things on the forum?
Please understand that I am trying to get a clearer picture of what the copmplaint is, not trying to pick a fight.
I love this place. The community has been wonderful and the music contained on this site is a treasure. I just want to see that I do not upset anyone by posting about my favorite band. Thanks!
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 3:32am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
As for discomfiture with Dead-dominated conversation here, many examples may be too polite for you to really notice here. The worst ones have been moderated, so you may miss them. Here is one example of a polite one:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=46050
The dominance of one or two particular topics on any messageboard does affect the conversational flow of the board. Heavy posting about 1 thing attracts more of the same and suppresses other postings. If you are a longterm member of various forums, you will notice this in each place. It is true here too. It is one reason why moderating ISOs here felt like a good idea.
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-16 11:32:40
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Poster: | Phynie | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 3:25am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
but I do not see how people posting a bunch of topics about the dead would really effect things. I mean, can't you still post about any band or show containd on the archive? Just becasue there are 80 posts about GD, there is still room for 80 more about other artists.
It's a forum. I would think it would be cool to talk about anything that is contained on the archive as long as you are not trying to be a jerk (using bad language, picking fights, etc.)
The reason I like posting here as opposed to dead.net is becasue I like the community here and their insight. But I do not want to upset the existing, non-dead fan, community by posting my opinions about the dead.
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 3:54am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
The health of this forum is not just about refraining from being a jerk. It's also about balance and looking at the big picture, beyond your single band and toward the community gathered around the whole collection here.
As for a Deadhead-centered community, I can attest that there is an insightful one over at dead.net and insightful Heads from here can fit in comfortably there. In fact there are some shared participants already.
For here though, "Please don't dominate the rap, Jack..."
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-16 11:54:51
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Poster: | JodyC | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 6:56am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
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Poster: | patkelley | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 8:15am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 12:06am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
*Example only- replies to that here will be moderated off this general discussion thread.
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-17 08:06:44
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Poster: | patkelley | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 10:38am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
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Poster: | direwolf0701 | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 10:42pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
i see so many many posts from the moving images people, open source audio etc - they certianly dont appear "put off." just my 1 1/2 cents.
This post was modified by direwolf0701 on 2005-11-17 06:42:34
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Poster: | 3roin stones | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 12:37am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
But, we're talking about a band with a thirty year history and 3,000 downloads on this site-not to mention the continuing performances by the members. What other band can come close to these numbers?
I,ve said it before that we Heads tend to be very passionate,if not downright obsessive about the Dead and sometimes we get carried away in our discussions and need to be reigned in.However we do need to be a little bit more responsible with our threads. I mean "best Dead air?"
All in all, we do need to restrict our queries to the shows here on the archive. We all love this site and would be devestated if we could'nt rely on it for our musical needs. I know I'm guilty of going off topic as are most of the other Deadheads who post on this forum and will,in the future try to restrict myself to the shows themselves.
But, I cannot see the problem of the best of performances throughout the Archive for any band. I certainly download other bands and rely on reviews posted by non-Dead fans, and will continue to do so. This site is a marvel and I love it and am very grateful for all the hard work you curators do to keep it up and running.
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Poster: | LMT | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 1:21am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
I can understand the policy of no ISO's that aren't on the LMA (either because it's too soon or b/c it's a commercial release). And obviously, I understand the policy of not posting topics that don't relate at all to the LMA downloads.
So, is it OK or not to start a thread asking "What's the best show with song 'x' to download?" As someone who just stumbled onto this site within the past 2 months, I really would like to know so I don't abuse/misuse the forum. Please clarify!
This post was modified by LMT on 2005-11-17 09:21:19
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 1:50am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
-Is the subject line tagged with the band name as well as the song name, to aid fans and nonfans? Or are you mistakenly posting as if this forum is just for your particular favorite band?
-Has this song or topic come up a bunch before, such that you can spare everyone a rehash? Like it says on each posting box here, "Please search the FAQs and forums using the box at the top of this page before posting questions in the event that your question has already been asked and answered in the past."
-Are there already a dozen other fresh topics about your band (relevant or not) churning on the board? Would it be possible to hold off and give some breathing room for other stuff- maybe ask later? That's a personal choice you can make, a common sense idea I'm asking anyone to consider. Common sense and perspective are good.
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-17 09:50:28
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Poster: | 3roin stones | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 1:49am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
Could'nt have put it better than that. Thanks Diana!
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Poster: | dire--wolf | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 4:42am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
No Time To Hate. Are You Kind?
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Poster: | direwolf0701 | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 4:49am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
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Poster: | dire--wolf | Date: | Nov 20, 2005 4:43am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting Take a Step Back |
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Poster: | 3roin stones | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 6:28am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
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Poster: | direwolf0701 | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 6:39am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
peace and jam on people :)
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Poster: | LMT | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 4:18am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
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Poster: | Ole Uncle John | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 8:08am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
dgrayshn, is this stated somewhere or just your opinion?? Seems like FAQ should be the first stop for these needs.
That the GD posts should be related to Archive collection is certainly a reasonable guideline, and folks using the Forum Search PRIOR to launching a 'best version' and 'best of year' thread would be nice.
Otherwise I don't get the too much GD gripes. The space to start new threads is UNLIMITED and its assumed that everyone can work there scroll or page down function to whip by all the posts that don't interest them.
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-17 16:08:16
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Poster: | direwolf0701 | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 8:04am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
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Poster: | midnight sun | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 4:58pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
This time it just feels like the wind has gone from the sails.
Like any censorship you're gonna loose more good than bad. That's the price for excercising power.
After spending long cold gloomy days working in the feild with insensitive people and then coming home only to work half way through the long night on dry and lifeless technical reports and other business related "BS"...
What I'm trying to say is it's a real treat to finaly slow down, kick back, let the world go by, drop in on this site and read the postings here by the regulars. I'm as big a sucker as any for jumping into the discussions...these are beautiful people with beautiful ideas that for the most part make a geniune effort to get along and respect each others opinions.
If the archive would rather Deadheads took their insights somewhere else then so be it. I've never been one to hang where I'm not wanted.
If that's how it's gonna be I just hope I get to converse with ALL of these wonderful people again.
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Poster: | Simard | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 8:43pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
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Poster: | 3roin stones | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 1:33am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
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Poster: | grendelschoice | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 11:21pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
If people don't like seeing Dead-related discussions, simply start a different one!
I too am a huge DeadHead (and make no apologies for that) but contrary to popular belief I have a great interest and listen to a large variety of other music as well. This site has turned me on to many bands, of which I would be more than happy to talk about, including RAY'S MUSIC EXCHANGE and HOME AT LAST, to name just 2....not to mention the countless other bands I've always loved and love talking about (RADIATORS, CHARLIE HUNTER, DEREK TRUCKS, MARTIN SEXTON) that are also abundant on the archive.
But there's no way I can resist a compelling thread about the Dead. I just don't see what's so bad about that, If I don';t like a particular song on the radio or show on TV, I turn the channel. It doesn't mean I stop listening to the radio or watching TV altogether. It never ceases to amaze me the vitriol that some people have towards the Dead. I don't know if they just resent the passion that DHeads have for their favorite band or if Jerry Garcia bit them when they were kids, but the anger expressed by Dead Haters really is confusing to me.
Our discussions of the best "Row Jimmy" or "Uncle John's Band" in no way threatens to wipe out the myriad of other music available for Download AND discussion on this site!
I made the mistake of responding to one particularly nasty posting not long ago that asked why there could't be some "serious" discussion of music on this site rather than the ramblings of Dead heads...but the person made no such suggestion of that "serious" discussion himself! Instead of insulting Dead Heads, just start a discussion of another band and I guarantee you'll be surprised at how easy it is to get others--including Dead Heads-- to gleefully join in.
Long live the archive!
GC
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Poster: | dgrayshn | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 11:43pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
someone posting a thread asking about what the best GD song from the summer of 71 or whatever should be posted on a GD fansite...
seems like a pretty straight forward concept to me...
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Poster: | grendelschoice | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 11:50pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
and it STILL doesn't address the point i'm making: Why can't tech issues, newbie questions or anything else for that matter co-exist w/postings about the Dead? Where in the world is the harm? If you see a posting about a Dead question and aren't interested, don't read it. Move on and post your own question.
Plus, the majority of Dead postings I have seen are in fact related directly to the archive b/c when someone asks a question about the best version of this or that song, they are more often than not directed to the very show that exists here in the archive. I have found dozens of great song versions based on threads from this forum. That's not pointless talk about best this or worst that...it's information that leads directly to what this site offers: great live music.
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Poster: | direwolf0701 | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 12:33am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
and what if I want a good clean soulful version of Kimock's "tongue n groove"?? do i have to search out a fansite forum for kimock just to ask a simmple question that can be answered (hopefully) here?
- by the way - the "tongue n groove" from 07/01/05 is about as gorgeous as it gets.
also - i may be "dead" wrong, but it seems to me that the only people who have been pointing me in other band's directions are the same people who are posting GD strings. (case in point - the current bluegrass with drums etree forum string). Like Simard said - OtherHeads need to promote their bands here. There is nothing more refreshing musically than discovering a new, beautiful sound.
This post was modified by direwolf0701 on 2005-11-17 08:18:18
This post was modified by direwolf0701 on 2005-11-17 08:33:24
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Poster: | Simard | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 12:05am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
OtherHeads : represent Yourselves!
BTW, this here LMA was in Time Magazine this week... we should probably feel the effects this weekend.
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Poster: | Brad Leblanc | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 1:27am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: LMA in Time Magazine? |
Really? Just a blurb or what?
This post was modified by Brad Leblanc on 2005-11-17 09:27:14
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Poster: | Simard | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 1:40am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
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Poster: | Tyler | Date: | Nov 17, 2005 2:17am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
ARCHIVE.ORG/AUDIO/ETREE.PHP The Live Music Archive is where hard-core fans go to find high-quality live recordings. It is a "noncommercial" (meaning free and legal) service, but many big acts turn up on the site, including Jack Johnson, Jason Mraz and the Grateful Dead.
This post was modified by Tyler on 2005-11-17 10:17:08
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Poster: | dgrayshn | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 9:26am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
I happen to be a big DMB fan...
when they were on here and DMB fans took over the board I didn't like that either...
jealousy or whatever you want to call it has nothing to do with it...
the archive is an archive site first.. its not a fan site for the DEAD...
nuff said
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Poster: | patkelley | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 10:49am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
My point is that the overwhelming amount of Dead music on here justifies a great deal of deference to Dead-related posts.
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Poster: | MoistGreenOrganic | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 4:02am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
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Poster: | Earl B. Powell | Date: | Dec 18, 2005 10:28am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
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Poster: | StrawRider | Date: | Nov 20, 2005 10:09am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
I've posted elsewhere (at DeadNet and the GD Forum) but this is the place where the goodies come from. Plus, as midnight sun has pointed out, it's been rewarding and educational and fun to read the posts and reviews of the regulars here. I would hate to move onto some other forum and lose some folks on the way.
If the solution I just presented cannot be handled by the Archive then perhaps if we fellow deadheads agree to set-up shop somewhere, would the Archive consider a link from here to it? It certainly would help keep the connections we've all made stay together. There has to be some way in which the Dead Community can resolve this issue since there are so many devoted, gifted and intelligent people that make it all happen.
So how about it? Can one band get its own discussion page or does that just lead to everyone wanting their own 'page two'? I don't think so. I think if the Dead fans had a special link page, the rest of the fans of other bands would be more than happy with the front page of the discussions to have as their own.
This post was modified by StrawRider on 2005-11-20 18:09:35
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Poster: | grendelschoice | Date: | Nov 20, 2005 9:33pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
I think that's a great idea and I would support it, even though I maintain that there is nothing at all wrong with people who don't want or are sick of Dead postings to simply ignore them and generate new posts on different topics or respond to other posts on topics that do interest them.
When I see posts dealing with intricate technical issues I have no interest in, I don't get annoyed or upset that people are having "insider" discussions I don't feel compelled to penetrate, I just shrug and move on.
I really can't believe this has become such a controversy, but if it wouldn't be too much work for the folks who run this excellent site to provide a link to a separate Dead forum where us "crazy people" can be safely caged with our discussions of the best version of "Mississippi Half Step", (11-6-77, Broome County, BTW ;-)...then fine, i'm all for it, and promise not to bother those who are fed up with us ever again.
GC
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Poster: | StrawRider | Date: | Nov 21, 2005 4:11am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
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Poster: | direwolf0701 | Date: | Nov 21, 2005 4:37am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
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Poster: | StrawRider | Date: | Nov 21, 2005 4:51am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
I think the Archive message board could be better served if we deadheads posted elsewhere about any GD topics that come up. That's my opinion.
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Poster: | greenone | Date: | Nov 21, 2005 5:59am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
I think it's more than a supposition...keep in mind that archive.org as a whole is a MUCH larger project than just the live music area, and to ask for the construction of a separate message board for one band's discussions may be a bit far down on the list of projects for the architects to take on.
The problem with recommendation threads is that they get very long very quickly, especially for bands that have 3000 shows on the site, and they eventually push several threads at a time off the bottom of the page.
The fact that a moderator is suggesting moderation seems to be a subtle hint that it's not just a whim that's come to her out of the blue, but more of a systemic recommendation to diversify the confab on the one board dedicated to this huge collection.
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Poster: | StrawRider | Date: | Nov 21, 2005 6:44am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
to ask for the construction of a separate message board for one band's discussions may be a bit far down on the list of projects for the architects to take on.
That's why I came up with an alternative solution to that first idea. The alternative is a link away from the Archive.
Building a link to another website where GD-related posts are not only welcomed but encouraged is a far easier task for the Archive architects. In this way the glut of GD-related posts would no longer need to be moderated. Nor would the deadheads need to post in moderation, judging whether or not to post. The indulgent GD posts could be elsewhere while the technical posts about a GD show would still be here.
I'm just trying to work it out so all of us can get along here while also trying to make so the Archive deadheads can stick together...
This post was modified by StrawRider on 2005-11-21 14:44:20
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Poster: | tigerbolt | Date: | Nov 21, 2005 8:46am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
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Poster: | StrawRider | Date: | Nov 21, 2005 12:01pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
Although flying below the radar can keep you from getting above the clouds. ;^)
DeadNet
GD Forum
DeadBase
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Poster: | greenone | Date: | Nov 21, 2005 6:54am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
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Poster: | Fishead | Date: | Jul 28, 2005 1:04am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
peace and jam on !!!
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Poster: | dgrayshn | Date: | Nov 16, 2005 1:57am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: About forum posting |
so im not surprised to see this happen...
hey Diane how about putting some of that in big bold letters on the front page ... otherwise this will just happen again and again and again..
:)